Spell Speed, when it's there, and when it's not...

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    (___ Reaper

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    Spell Speed, when it's there, and when it's not...

    Post by (___ Reaper on Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:01 pm

    Often there is a debate about whether or not someone can chain something;

    can you Chain Bottomless Trap Hole to Torrential Tribute,

    or Mirror Force to Sakuretsu Armor,

    or Solemn Warning to Solemn Judgment

    or Magic Jammer to Magic Jammer,

    or ALL AT THE SAME TIME!!!

    I see in forums that they can Chain Bottomless to Torrential, or Mirror to Cylinder, but never Warning to Judgment, and never Jammer to Jammer

    People people get confused by this!

    "If I can respond to a Summon with Torrential and Bottomless in the same Chain, and respond to an attack declaration with Force and Cylinder in the same Chain, why can't I respond to a summon declaration with two Solemns, or an activation with two Jammers?"

    This is because of the nature of the events you're responding to in the first place.


    There are three kinds of events this guide will cover.

    1) Events with Spell Speed
    2) Summon Declarations
    3) All other Events

    --------SHALL WE GET STARTED?---------------------------------------------------------

    1] Events with Spell Speed

    Events with Spell Speed are obvious - they're those things in the rulebook that the rulebook says are Spell Speed 1, 2, or 3.

    This kind of event has a simple name. "Activation." You know this word. You breathe this word. It rules you.

    Further, we are no stranger to having effects activate directly in response to something else's activation.

    There are several kinds of effects like this. One kind would be effects like those of Magic Jammer, Seven Tools of the Bandit, or Stardust Dragon. They all "negate the activation" of something.

    Effects that "activate in response to something else's activation" must be CHAINED to the activation that they're responding to.



    This is why Jammer, Tools, and Stardust either are always chained to what they want to negate. This is also why you can't Chain Jammer to Jammer.



    But not all effects that act like this negate activations.

    Some redirect damage - Barrel Behind the Door, Spell of Pain, Crimson Fire.

    Others do unique things - Spell Reclamation, Trap Reclamation, Serial Spell.

    The point is that the only thing binding these effects together is the fact that the ONLY LEGAL TIME TO ACTIVATE THEM is by Chaining them to something else's activation.

    ----------------- OMG SUMMON TIME!----------------------------------------------------

    2] Summon Declaration

    Summon Declaration is unique in the fact that while it has no spell speed, it has unique rules about what may and may not be activated in response to it.


    Let's be clear: Summon Declaration is NOT the same thing as actually Summoning something.

    Consider a case where I Tribute a monster to Normal Summon Caius.

    I begin the process by DECLARING my intent to Summon or Set and paying appropriate costs. If I plan to Summon, I reveal the card I want to Summon. If I plan to Set, I show the backside of the card I plan to Set, and I keep it separate from any other unrevealed cards in my possession, so as not to mix it up with any other unrevealed cards.

    Since we're using Caius as an example, I would reveal Caius and Tribute 1 monster.

    I do not actually Summon Caius yet.

    Rather, both players have the opportunity to respond to my declaration of intent.



    There are three special rules for this opportunity to respond.

    The first is: Only one Chain may exist for this opportunity to respond.

    The second is: Chain Link 1 of a Chain formed in this opportunity to respond MUST be the activation of an effect that negates the kind of Summon or Set I've declared.

    The third is: That kind of activated effect which inevitably forms Chain Link 1 of such a Chain CANNOT form Chain Link 2 or higher of such a Chain.


    This is why when Solemn Judgment tries to negate something's Summon, you can't Chain Solemn Warning to try to negate that Summon yourself.


    So; both players have the opportunity to respond to my declaration - but since Chain Link 1 of the responding Chain must be an effect that negates the action I've declared, this means that most effects can't be activated in response to this declaration as Chain Link 1.

    Further, because effects that negate said action are the only kind of effect that may be Chain Link 1 of such a Chain, this means that there will be no Chain in response to the declaration UNLESS someone activates such an effect as Chain Link 1.

    But once someone does, then any normally-activatable effect may be Chained, based upon the rule of Spell Speed.



    If there's a Chain in response to the declaration, resolve it - and if Caius' Summon was negated, then Caius is sent whereever the effect that negated its Summon wants it to go.

    If Caius' Summon or Set isn't negated, then I perform its Summon.

    THIS is the actual Summoning. THIS is the thing that things like Bottomless and Torrential respond to.

    ---------AND THEN THERE IS THE OTHER...----------------------------------------------

    3] All other Events


    Then why can you Chain Bottomless to Torrential, or Torrential to Bottomless?

    This is because Bottomless and Torrential don't respond to something with a Spell Speed, and they don't respond to Summon Declaration. They respond to Summon Performance - namely, the actual performing of the Summon.


    And why can you Chain Mirror to Prison, and Prison to Mirror?

    Because, again, this is because they don't respond to something with a Spell Speed, and they don't respond to Summon Declaration. They respond to attack declaration.



    But what if we get a Chain involving lots of different kinds of cards that respond to different things?

    It's important to keep in mind what each thing is responding to.

    For example, let's say that my opponent attacks with Light and Darkness Dragon while I control Dimensional Prison and Mirror Force.

    I activate Mirror Force in response to the attack's declaration, and then LiDa's effect Chains to it.

    LiDa, in this case, is responding to my activating Mirror Force.

    However, I can Chain Dimensional Prison.


    A card or effect does not have to specify "I respond to LiDa's effect's activation" in order to Chain to LiDa.


    It's responding to the declaration of LiDa's attack.

    Not everything in a Chain needs to respond to the same event.

    Prison is responding to LiDa's activation by Chaining to it. Prison is responding to an attack's declaration by activating "when an attack is declared" - this entire Chain exists "when an attack is declared."

    dot dot dot

    ~These types of things always get confused. I hope I helped someone. ^~^
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    Marrillian

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    Re: Spell Speed, when it's there, and when it's not...

    Post by Marrillian on Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:13 am

    Now in the case of something like Future fusion, and solemn (the 2000lp one), will the monsters be sent to the graveyard? Because solemen targets the card summoning. So will it stop solemn before you send cards?

    Because it can be used on Red-eyes Darkness Metal to destroy Red-Eyes because his effect is targeting? (but that is off topic)
    5/10
    Overall, I don't think you covvered what spell speed is, and the different levels of it. Like counter trap, quickplay spell... etc



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    songsong1

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    Re: Spell Speed, when it's there, and when it's not...

    Post by songsong1 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:39 am

    5/10 its fine for begginers who have just started the game, but its way too simple for people here on this wesite who have been playing yugioh for some time




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    Re: Spell Speed, when it's there, and when it's not...

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